Even articles written by assistant professors at lower-paying law schools come with a price tag between $25,000 and $42,000, he estimated.Neumann actually uses this as a reason to argue for protecting tenure; he seems to believe that the tenure protection will allow faculty to think creatively about revamping legal education. I think he's a bit biased by his stake in the fight, but no one's perfect, and his realization that student's increasing debt loads are caused in some small part by subsidizing worthless research is a good start.
Neumann also pointed to research suggesting that 43% of law review articles are never cited by anyone. "At least a third of these things have no value," he said. "Who is paying for that? Students who will graduate with six figures of debt."
Also on the panel were Dean Yellen of Loyola-Chicago and Dean Matasar of NYLS. It seems like these guys do nothing but travel to conferences and pontificate. I wonder if Neumann will ever talk about the wasted money paying deans to fly around the country. There's nothing really unexpected from either.
Those unread articles in law journals cost tens of thousands to produce with very low benefits (as in, more people will read this sentence than who honestly read most secondary journals). Under no cost-benefit analysis would these things ever get greenlighted, but unfortunately, American universities not only eschewed cost-benefit analysis, but most made production of this worthless crud the hallmark of a tenure-worthy professor (instead of, say, teaching). Instead of producing only truly meritorious scholarship, the academy (including its legal peers) took to publishing as a CV-stuffer and convinced itself that its "scholarly mission" requires constant publication regardless of the quality. Their work becomes important because they produced it, not because it shares any qualities with truly important work.
And the students are left shouldering the cost of these things, all so the university can feel better about itself under standards and "missions" it fully made up.
I'm not saying all scholarship is worthless, not even all legal scholarship; that would be absurd. But the system we have now is a crap machine that has allows people to be employed at lucrative salaries for writing things no one wants. For the time, effort, and energy spent on articles that have no economic value, all to impress some students on a law review board, these individuals could be doing things that have some value to society, like running clinics to represent indigent clients. At the very least, it's unjust to have students subsidize these quixotic efforts, just as it would be to force students to subsidize novel or screenplay or poetry anthology attempts.
$100,000 with a good chance it never proves worthy enough to cite. If you think of all the alternative uses for that $100,000 per full-time professor article and you write out all the possible options, your list is guaranteed to be far more interesting than 95% of what's come out of legal academia in the last few decades. And it will probably contain some items the paying customers would actually use and appreciate.
It's strange to me that with what you put in your "About" text to the right you were ?foolish? enough to enter law school.
ReplyDeleteIf you wanted to do the things you say you want to do, you know you could have attempted it without jumping into the flames yourself, right?!
Let me guess...after you do graduate, if you find no work then you will "graduate" to "scamblogger,' and then wear that moniker with pride and look down on those that do not wish to be quite so negative (I see you put down Kimber but there was no mention of Fernando's childish response of removing her link and encouraging others to do so...how is that helpful?).
God speed, future scamblogger!
To the cockroach who posted above,
ReplyDeleteKimber is a tool. She believes that we can work with the ABA, to affect change in "legal education." She has also watered down her blog's content, over the last few months - as well as removing several entries that dared push the envelope a little. What a beacon of bravery and integrity, huh?!?!
Also, the ingrate made her name as a scamblogger and then pissed all over the movement. Which is okay, as it is still going strong. Apparently, she is not receiving as many views, as she removed her page counter from her site.
Lastly, dumbass, Kimber removed my links first. (When that Jewel law review article came out, I was relieved that the sanitized version of my blog was removed from DBL. I don't need an airhead cleaning up my entries.) After she repeatedly acted like the mentally unstable person that she is, I responded and put her face and ass in the dirt, in the process. It was fun. However, I only did so after she left me no alternative.
It is funny that you support such an attention whore. By the way, where is your contempt for someone who refers to themselves as a lawyer, but has not taken any cases? Sure, you may have a license. But you are not really an attorney until a client retains you for your legal insight/advice.
Also, it is pretty obvious that this author is already a scamblogger.
One more thing: Kimber, the duplicitous rat, has kept most of the scamblogs on her blogroll. Including a few that have removed her stupid site from their blogrolls. In fact, some of those scambloggers cannot stand the bitch.
For the record, Kimber disrespected Scott Bullock, who did far more for the cause than this Rupert Grint doppelganger ever has. In fact, the NYT contacted Scott for the "Is Law School a Losing Game?" article. He emailed the other scambloggers, and Attention Whore Kimber jumped all over it. She called them back in a New York minute. She sought them out.
ReplyDeleteKimber was stoked about her lengthy interview and photo. (Somehow she decided that it would be cool to dress like a man and style her like one.) In the end, this crass opportunist cares about making friends with ABA cockroaches and Vagina Bob Morse much more than she ever did about the student debtor.
In my view, she is a useful idiot. (Look up the term, ass-hat.) Those in power often place their plants in reform movements. They do so to gain insight into where the cause is headed, and to try to get input, i.e. or to derail or alter the mission.
Alan Collinge has told me several times that there are very few you can trust in this movement. So many are only in it for themselves.
http://jd--stories.blogspot.com/2011/01/kimbers-story-overcredentialed-curse.html
ReplyDelete"Law school was not something I ever thought I would do, especially considering my huge student loan debts and the fact that I was already overeducated. My husband, actually, suggested that I should go to law school because I could follow what was going on in a lawsuit against our landlord. We weighed the pros and cons, especially the increased debt load, but ultimately decided to go for it because the legal market appeared strong and stable."
From the horseface's mouth. Yes, what a great reason to go to law school!!!! So you can follow a lawsuit involving your landlord.
Kimber is a professional student, i.e. BS in Speech from Northwestern, MA in Film Studies from NYU, a culinary certificate from the Cooking and Hospitality Institute of Chicago - before attending DePaul's commode of law. Read the article, dumbass.
After idiotically taking on $300K in combined student loan debt, and accumulating several degrees, she is upset because she could not land a lawyer job. After the scam-blogs started receiving lots of coverage and attention, she decided to join the movement. After our negativity - and facts - garnered the attention of the New York Times, the ingrate then turned her back on the cause.
Hell, even her supporters on JDU recognized that she was an opportunistic pig. She lost a lot of support, on that forum, after our schism. There are no halfway measures, when you are dealing with such an entrenched, corrupt and morally bankrupt organization such as the ABA. Anyone who wants to be friends with the ABA should be thrown overboard.
Geez. The "we must punish the uppity woman who displeased us" thing going on here is a turn off. I was opposed to Kimber's big "I'm not a scamblogger" post at first, but the more rage-filled rants I saw about it, the more it just made me think she had a point.
ReplyDeleteGet. Over. It.
I have no idea what made 5:32 bring up Kimber (and how I allegedly "put her down"), but aside from my post about scamblogging in general, I've pretty much stayed out of the Kimber-Nando thing. I basically said she was wrong and that's that. Notice I still list her on my blog roll, so I don't really adopt Nando's view wholesale on this point. I think, regardless of her flaws, she still has value in spreading awareness about the dying/changing legal profession, student debt, etc.
ReplyDeleteAs for your first sentence, people do this funny thing called "learning" as they move on. When I applied to law school, I obviously thought the benefits far outweighed the costs. Specifically, I though I was virtually guaranteed to find work making at least $70k a year (being conservative with the BLS estimates) with manageable debt. This assumption made intuitive sense as there were people actually making significantly more as first-year lawyers. I was at a dead end professionally, so it made sense to go back to school.
After being in law school, I learned about bimodal distributions and misleading statistics and that my research underpinning my decision to go to law school was flawed. And my dead-end option was no longer there. Of course if I knew what I know now I probably would not go to law school (incidentally, neither would the majority of my peers, no matter how employable or unemployable they are). That's part of the point of this whole education movement.
Finally, I want to note - again - that I don't think law school is "foolish" for everyone, and I don't think scam is the right word, so no, barring some unforeseen news, I will not be calling myself a scamblogger. In fact I explained all this in the post you seem to be referring to, if you bothered to read.
These comments are funny.
ReplyDeleteThis post is about legal scholarship.
ReplyDeleteSo I will ask, who actually reads Law Review Articles.
Maybe it's because I'm not a lawyer, and so I don't know where a Law Review article is useful. But don't courts mainly read opinions from other judges if they want to know about some legal issue? And don't people concerned with some public legal campaign (Say, civil rights) read what others lawyers in the struggle are thinking?
Isn't the most read Law Review article actually that one where the professor says that Law school is archaic and not preparing people adequately?